Check for wear and replace any worn parts. In that case, it it best to dismantle the magneto to retrieve it. The Magneto Guys - Vintage, Veteran, Classic Magneto Repairs Lucas Magnetos We have overhauled and repaired these Lucas magnetos and then returned them to their owners. There has been requests lately on the board for more tech stuff. yourselves. Values vary considerably depending on the make and model of magneto and who wound it. The plugs are non resistor, gaped at -025", and are new. a separate spring-loaded holder (Lucas) or hidden at the back of the contact breaker plate (BT-H). Rotate the armature until the contact-breaker points are open. Tri-Spark Ignitions; Pazon Ignitions; Lucas Rita; AGM Batteries For Classics; Lucas Alternators; Rectifiers & Voltage Control; Dynamo Parts; Magneto Parts; Lucas SR Magneto Spares; HT Coils For Classic Bikes; British Bike Points & Condensers; . magnetos and capacitors (for those who wish to This Lucas KVF magneto was rebuilt 7,000 miles ago and failed at around 3,000 miles with loss of spark on one cylinder. The high voltage will simply arc across the gap. As the field collapses rapidly there is a large voltage induced (as described by Faraday's Law) across the primary coil. When we undertake the renovation of these magnetos, we examine the following:-. part-exchange. On many Rolls Royce models there is a dual ignition system. any service or repair work until further notice. Common Faults on Magnetos Put a smear of grease on the surface of the cam that engages its housing. Check for any dirty marks on the paper. If it is significantly lower, then there is probably a short-circuit in the contact-breaker assembly or in the armature. fitted, the EasyCap becomes a routine service This causes the electromagnetic field in the primary coil to collapse rapidly. Please get in contact if you know anything about aerograph compressors especially if you have technical drawings.Last, but not least, if you want to receive notifications when more videos in this series are uploaded please subscribe to the channel. Thorspark magneto ignition repair FAQ - Sussex motorcycles The result in high resistance will reduce the current flow in the primary winding and reduce the magnetic flux which adversely effects the secondary winding output voltage. First test is to take the plug caps off the HT leads and position the ends of the HT leads 1/4" away from the casting. What else could possibly be grounding this? Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Nearly all magnetos have a gasket between the pick-up and the magneto body (a) to prevent water entry and (b) to set the correct clearance between the pick-up holder and the slip ring. One of the plug caps should give a reading which is substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section. With some magnetos, the main-body earth brush is accessible with the magneto in situ. We are unfortunately not able to offer Fantastic! A short circuit absorbs all the power, hence no output or spark. quality are also available, of the correct If youre giving your magneto a thorough check over, we suggest you tackle jobs in the order shown. If there are any, repeat until the paper comes out clean. Thank you for your patience. 0000001320 00000 n - there's a lot of stuff in our frequently Gift Article. Sign up for a new account in our community. Copyright 2023, Antique Automobile Club of America. It's a 6v system, so the starter turns rather slowly (maybe 80rpm), but I think it should be fast enoughto start. degrade with age. Powered by Invision Community. have a small choice of reconditioned Upgrade your membership to 82 23 With the points fully open, adjust the points gap to 0.012 (0.3 mm). Once the insulation has been broken down once, it often makes it easier for it to be broken down again. After a series of checks, I sent it back to the rebuilder. Contact Us - DO NOT EMAIL CAR QUESTIONS. Lucas Magneto Bearing Shim Pack 15mm | E15 | N3048 | K1F | SR | K2F . Espaol Trouble starting my 1924 Citroen engine. In the case of a main-body earth brush, try moistening a cotton bud with petrol, and poke it through the hole for the earth brush to clean the track while rotating the armature, but IMPORTANTLY before doing that temporarily remove or disable the contact breaker to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. JavaScript is disabled. All rewound units now have modern condensers and enameled wire. With BTH devices, if the moving point assembly fouls the eccentric pin, the pin will need to be adjusted. This is really common on original units as the Lucas condensers were made from wax paper and foil. 0000006861 00000 n The points gaps with the heel at the centre of each lobe of the cam should be the same, but a small difference is inconsequential. Lucas workshop instructions - magnetos Library Robert Bosch Documentation American Bosch workshop instructions Patents Books and learnd papers Workshop instructions - Lucas magnetos N1, KN1, K1F, K2F, KVF MO1L, MN2L Redesigned contact breaker for ring cam models SR magnetos (general info.) specially-selected, top-quality, British-made replacement for the condenser (capacitor) in It uses a magneto and a transformer to make pulses of high voltage for the spark plugs. Put a smear of grease on the lobe(s) of the cam. Having removed the contact-breaker assembly from the magneto, disassemble it, noting where each part was. errors in the translations. 0000009971 00000 n Ensure that you have the proper gasket fitted. If working on your own, holding the end of the HT cable steady 6 mm from the engine is difficult when kicking the starter. Free access to service and repair grade to avoid carbon deposits on the slip making your own bearing and slip-ring pullers; Re-install the contact-breaker assembly, ensuring that it registers properly with the armature shaft. In more modern times, insulation materials have improved to the point where constructing self-contained magnetos is relatively easy, but energy transfer systems are still used where the ultimate in reliability is required such as in aviation engines. We also provide 0000002847 00000 n Photo-sequences of stripping and Norsk Oil on the inside of the pick-up is usually indicative of a failure of the magnetos oil seal, in which case the magneto will need a more complete overhaul. PA. If they look good I would replace the condenser if it has one and retest. Remove the cam, carefully noting which way round it goes and which notches in it engage where. demand to 'perfectly functional' or 'as-new' English If possible, get somebody to help. If not provided with a safety gap, there is a risk of expensive damage. There is no wire hooked up to the cap. (Chinese) However, provided the reading is more than about 500 ohms, it is probably OK. relating to our products, others more general [7] Ignition magnetos were soon was used on most cars, for both low voltage systems (which used secondary coils to fire the spark plugs) and high voltage magnetos (which fired the spark plug directly, similar to induction coil ignition). Checked it over and found no spark. Check that all the insulators are in good shape, and reassemble the contact breaker assembly. If there is a main-body earth brush and it is accessible, remove it and check that the spring is good, that the brush is free to move in the holder and that the brush is not unduly worn in length or diameter. 0000000016 00000 n patterns for shims, gaskets and bearing classic owners. 0000003162 00000 n I got it back, spun it, sparked. Initial installation does require the In the inductor magneto, the magnet is rotated and the coil remains stationary. only for magnetos, but also classic motorcycle I do not know it all but I will try to help. (Japanese) I would be interested to hear from people who either have seen this running or know of similar setups in forges. Lucas magneto problems? NEW CHEAP solution to bad condensor Stored in the dry. Are suppressors and resistor sparking plugs OK to use with magnetos? 0000003777 00000 n things we think matter when it comes to magnetos and. We would recommend having the transformer coil rewound as modern class F or H wires and insulations are superior to the ones used at the time it was originally made and would almost certainly give you another 40 years of good service. In this series of pages, well take you through the main things. That then produces a gap of about 4 mm between the centre electrode and the screw-threaded bit of the plug body. Likes: 260. scotland. When screwed in the head, however, the plugs make no spark. A lot of carbon dust on the inside of the pick-up indicates that the brush is too soft, in which case it should be replaced with a brush of the correct grade. Also, many magnetos (especially twin- and multi-cylinder devices) are provided internally with safety gaps, typically of 6.5 to 7.5 mm, and if the magneto cant find an outlet through whatever is or isnt connected to it, it happily sparks the safety gaps instead. On more advanced magnetos the cam ring can be rotated by an external linkage to alter the ignition timing. Regrettably, some Acrobat .pdf files might startxref Capacitors are replaced with ones that have a longer life expectancy and greater reliability. capacitance to satisfactory ignition system rebuilt amature runs about 85pnds from independent ignition. A really nice one will jump 1/2"or better. You should not feel any tingles in your hand. You can check for this by trying to start in a dark area with no lighting. Or what else could be causing this? Take a look at some of the equipment we Fit the magneto gear to the magneto shaft and finger tighten the nut ONLY until the gear is snug on the tapered shaft. They were used in the village forge in Cullworth (northaptonshire). the brass is in the wrong place, as a result of a magneto with a segment-type slip-ring having an incorrect cam fitted or having the wrong direction of slip-ring fitted. Posts: 34. not load correctly in the translated versions of the pages. Now let the slip ring dry out with the pick-ups still removed. MochetVelo and overhauls. With twin- or multi-cylinder magnetos, and some single-cylinder magnetos, the brass is a segment, rather than a complete ring, and you may need to rotate the armature in order to be able to see it. detailed instructions in our 'condensectomy' However, if the reading is more than 7000 ohms, there is probably either a break in the HT winding, or a bad connection between the live end of the HT winding and the slip-ring. With an open circuit the device has no CAPACITY to absorb the reaction voltage (back EMF) from the coil, therefore this energy is dissipated across the timing contact which quickly burns away. "Specializing in Triumph and other fine Vintage motorcycles". (Chinese) To have the discharge go arc back into the coil itself or the mag housing causes some serious damage. pouvons vous aider soit en franais, soit en How to 'Kill' a Lucas KVF Magneto? - Vincent H.R.D. Owners Club Forum Replace the cam, ensuring that the notches in it engage as before (e.g. Can you rig up real cables? slip rings and pick-ups for Lucas and BTH If the coil has been in service since the magneto was new there is a good chance the insulation has started to break down, allowing voltage to track. It may not display this or other websites correctly. 0000004414 00000 n At any one time, we reckon to You should not let a Wico X go out the door if it will not jump more than 1/4" because something is wrong. This disables the magneto to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. trailer Check the state of the tappet and replace if necessary. She was factory fitted with a Morris Vedette MKII engine which has a lucas rf4 magneto. Lucas SR2 Magneto - Hitchcocks Forum The original coil may be reusable, although it is susceptible to faults - as described in our section: common problems on magnetos. Then wash the points with petrol and dry them. When the magneto is supposed to fire, the flyweights are released by the action of the body contacting the trigger ramp. I can never stress this enough to people who try to test out their mags. Undo the contact-breaker centre-screw and remove the contact-breaker assembly. Feel free to buy the forum staff a coffee or pint or just make a contribution of your choice. Another cause of atom disorientation is mechanical shock, hammer blows or dropping the unit onto a hard surface, etc. A short circuit absorbs all the power, hence no output or spark. Your mag likely has a bad condensor. When screwed in the head, however, the plugs make no spark. Another problem, due to constant hot, cold, expansion, contraction, vibration or mechanical impact, is breakage of the fine winding wire. The ratio of turns in the secondary winding to the number of turns in the primary winding, is called the turns ratio. U.S. agrees to $5 million settlement over police killing of Bijan Once For example, in the Lucas K1F and K2F, the earth brush is located on top inboard of the main mounting flange. The reading should be substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section. Nice work. i have had 3 done here by ed strain that included rebuild with remagnatized body for a little more than $200.00. If it was a typo then you can run it with the cap and rotor off by just holding your wire to the HT terminal and that would eliminate the cap land rotor from the equation. A simple magneto (an electrical generator using permanent magnets) is able to produce relatively low voltage electricity, however it is unable to produce the high voltages required by a spark plug as used in most modern engines (aside from diesel engines). I wonder if hand-cranking might get it going. Coil may still function somewhat and not completely failed but ratio of turns lost because of insulation breakdown. With the mag on the engine, there is a spark at all 4 plugs . Because it requires no battery or other source of electrical energy, the magneto is a compact and reliable self-contained ignition system, which is why it remains in use in many general aviation applications. There are several common faults with magnetos The Capacitor Capacitors, which are short-term storage devices, often fail in older magnetos due to dielectric degradation (short circuit) or conductor breakage (open circuit). Franaise Deutsch As the size of the combustion chamber determines the time to burn the fuel charge, dual ignition was especially important for the large-bore aircraft engines around World War II where it was necessary to combust the entire fuel mixture in a shorter time than a single plug could provide, in order to build peak cylinder pressure at the rpm desired. anglais, votre convenance. 0000013093 00000 n We also sell our Brightspark range of We The older term "high-tension" means "high-voltage".[1]. -- misfiring, particularly at higher revs and fully open throttle, or when opening the throttle. Dansk On the Lucas magnetos, the spec is to jump a .200 gap at 200 rpm for the slow speed test. AJS and Matchless Owners Club Limited | Print Article - Jampot I also needed a new coil for it which I installed, cleaned the mag up and replaced any bits it needed. Still here since 1996 serving BritBike enthusiasts. Not quite as large as ideal, but simple. Even if the points surfaces look good, clean them with fine emery cloth to remove any oxide layer. The Magneto Guys - Vintage, Veteran, Classic Magneto Repairs that more owners can not only maintain their magnetos, The Lucas magdyno and magneto units fitted to all AMC machines after 1939 had Nifal magnets which are not demagnetised by removal of the armature. If the reading is less than 3000 ohms, it would be unusual, but is indicative of a problem. He got it and thought the ring the points rides in came out and just needed pushed in. A capacitor is placed across the points which absorbs the energy stored in the leakage inductance of the primary coil, and slows the rise time of the primary winding voltage to allow the points to open fully. If I was working on it, first I would want a 5/16" air gap consistent spark minimum from the coil terminal to ground. The magneto is rebuilt by a reputable US shop. item. Turn the armature in its proper direction of rotation until the contact-breaker points are just starting to open on one of the cam lobes. 0000005012 00000 n Always good to learn how to check lucas parts, one of the weaker parts of a triumph motor.. Classic Cycles inc. 2199 N. Batavia Suite J. Turn the armature in its proper direction of rotation until the contact-breaker points are just starting to open. This video details the work done to the magneto so far. 1. British motorcycles on e-Bay North America, Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. equipment. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Just to reinforce a point here of something very well done that you did in the how-to: when you're testing a mag like this, ALWAYS have the plug wires hooked up with a gap (or plugs) to ground so that energy has somewhere to go. insulators; and timing discs. At least I assume so: My timing light (seen in photo clamped to plug wire #1) illuminates correctly when plug #1 is unscrewed from the engine and sparks, but it does not light up when the plug is screwed into the engine. detailed support we offer. Our preferred gap for spark testing in fresh air is 6 mm. or You can check the latter by removing the pick-up(s), rotating the armature in the proper direction until the points are just opening, and checking that the brass is visible directly underneath the pick-up hole (or one of the pick-up holes) in the magneto body. Remagnetisation - Brightspark Magnetos If it is significantly higher, there is a bad connection or break in the low-tension circuit, in which case the magneto will need a more complete overhaul. many ignition systems, focusing especially on 0 The condensers we get now are made in area's that there are no or very poor quality control checks. Pick-up, HT Lead and Plug-cap 1 rebuilding magnetos and of how to extract an A When inserting the brushes; you may have to do. If your magneto does not have an EasyCap but it fitted with a condenser buried in the armature, then it is impossible to check the condition of the condenser, while the armature is assembled, without specialised equipment. Make sure they are there and can move in their holders and give them a good clean. magnetos available for sale or in Also, some pattern contact-breaker assemblies are too large at the fat end and need to be filed or ground to size. The spark is fine on this coil, keep in mind the faster you turn a mag, the better the spark. You are probably loosing amperage through the jumper cables. If nobody is available, then you can make a test plug by removing the earth electrode from an old, but functional, sparking plug. If you have identified the magneto as the source of your ignition fault send it to us for repair. I can guarantee every British motorcycle powered by a magneto i either not delivering maximum spark and/or is on the verge of failing if the original Lucas capacitor has not been replaced. Lucas workshop instructions - magnetos If you are sure that all earth brushes are removed, and if either the magneto has a fibre drive pinion or the drive pinion/sprocket has been removed, you can now check the effectiveness of the bearing insulators. If you can see the slip-ring through the pick-up hole in the main housing, check that the brass ring or segment of the slip-ring is brass coloured (albeit possibly a bit dirty or tarnished), but not completely black. Wrap some rag around the end of a stick about 1/4 diameter, moisten it with petrol or other cleaning fluid (but not so much that it is dripping), poke it through the pick-up hole in the magneto body, and rotate the armature to clean the slip ring. You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. Therefore, taking the sparking plug(s) out of the engine, laying them on the cylinder head and checking whether the magneto will produce a spark at kickstart speeds is not a sufficient test. themselves. Some original units are still in service today. The voltage generated across magneto coils is quite high, in the order of 20,000 volt if no spark plugs are in place. So I'm having an issue that is frustrating me and my mag rebuilder. Click Here to view Lucas face cam (magdyno) parts manual. the brush spring is not touching the terminal in the pick-up holder; the connection between the cable and the pick-up is corroded; the screw in the plug cap has gone down the side of the HT cable and not down its centre; Slip-ring I have tried both Champion and NGK plugs. In the type known as a shuttle magneto, the engine rotates a coil of wire between the poles of a magnet. On the very first BSA I ever owned, I sufferred the same problem. Links to some interesting In a modern installation, the magneto only has a single low tension winding which is connected to an external ignition coil which not only has a low tension winding, but also a secondary winding of many thousands of turns to deliver the high voltage required for the spark plug(s). Pick-up brushes of the highest quality are also available, of the correct grade to avoid carbon deposits on the slip ring. Nederlandse Thanks. heavier the better. 0000002567 00000 n The other thing I have noticed is the spark will arc to ground when compression is on the plug if external arcingis the path of least resistance. SR1, SR2 & SR4 magnetos (workshop instructions) JavaScript is disabled. With larger gaps, if the magneto is provided with a safety gap, the spark is more likely to jump there where it cant be seen, so thats a waste of time. Rotate the armature and check that, when the points are fully open, the moving point assembly is not fouling anything. For example: Check as best you can that the brush is actually making contact with the track on which it runs. Now that the slip ring has dried off, replace the pick-up(s). An ignition magneto (also called a high-tension magneto) is an older type of ignition system used in spark-ignition engines (such as petrol engines). that old problem, the deeply-buried condenser DIY Magneto Maintenance and Troubleshooting "Colonel fair is fair: if I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye can I go home too?". Because the magneto has low voltage output at low speed, starting an engine is more difficult. wish to make the required puller tool Over time the HT leads can degrade and reduce the potential difference at the spark plug. instruments available for immediate use, and a BTH mags utilized condensers made from mica. Replace the main-body earth brush, if applicable. It shouldnt be very many ohms, and certainly less than 30 ohms. old condenser to be disconnected. Lucas vertical magneto in good condition and sparking.
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