Today I had some last shot hold open issues while using 20 round P-mags. The Magpul PMAG is a great, well designed magazine that many people like and use in various rifles around the world, but over the years I have discovered that they are not the best option for me personally. For a while you only had so long to make the edit and then never again. Like you hear military folk say, Ounces equal pounds. And in the case of the PMAG, a full loadout saves the user a bit of weight. You are using an out of date browser. Another P-Mag bolt catch issue? - AR15.COM If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, I'll test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 5. Also, since the follower rides too high the pmags I used made a dent in the follower from the bolt. They are reliable, well-constructed, and produced by a company that has a great reputation. The plunger and compressed spring are 0.490. If that's what the bolt catch is suppossed to look like then my mags are a lil out of spec when inserted into the lower. How do I make the install permanent for use in states such as. Loctite (red) or epoxy the Allen bolt into the standoff (threaded barrel tube), and lightly drilling the bolt head facets with a 1/8 drill bit until the socket teeth are rounded. Problems I have run into in the past include, firstly, that they wont drop free in a lot of firearms. Re: Magpul PMag issues. I actually just noticed this issue on my Colt 6920 with Magpul M2 PMAGS. It knows when youre cheating..like Santa. They all functioned fine. One new winner* is announced every week! Your link has been automatically embedded. IMHO, I would get a USGI / high / known quality bolt catch and try one of those. Magpul needs to tweak their mold a bit before they make the claims they do. I sanded the top rib along the back wall of the mag near the feed and the feed itself and problem seems to have resolved. JavaScript is disabled. 80% ar-10 bolt jammed m5e1 pmag stuck 1 2 Next Mk3Mstr6Mchne0 Atlington, Washington Messages 12 Reactions 28 Apr 30, 2019 #1 this is kind of hard to explain, I am also pretty experienced with the AR platform, my M5e1 upper is assembled on an 80% lower. Lastly, not only are PMAGs more expensive than the alternative, but also heavier. I like the idea that I can accomplish a speedy reload by pressing a button and kicking a magazine out. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. I am having no problems with Gen 2 or Gen 3 Pmags in a variety of lowers using mil-spec mag and bolt catches, which are also from a variety of suppliers. Also don't buy anything from Beavercreek Armory in Hillsboro, Oregon as they screwed me over with this poorly built, out of spec rifle. PMAG feeding problem, jamming on chamber face If you could post a pic of that comparison, it would be helpful. New production Colt-pattern U.S. GI mags are four to five dollars cheaper than generation three PMAGs. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! PMAG bolt lockback fix | Springfield XD Forum View attachment 25288. Its Alex C. with TFBTV. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. Take off your upper receiver, throw in that empty mag. Mick 1 month later. It may not display this or other websites correctly. You cannot paste images directly. At the moment just keep posting as usual, the edit feature will become available. Maybe after Magpul completes their move they'll address some of their mold issues, 'til then it's best to check. However, when using the CH to keep the BCG to the rear, the follower can slip past the bolt catch when slammed into the magwell or when jarred or shaken significantly after insertion. and our Yes I had to trim the left side rear notch square before the BC laid perfectly flat. A friend with a lower that started at 80% also had the same problem as I do and fixed his by shifting his mag catch up 0.050". 6: Bolt catch fully extended = 0.359, Fig. I'm pretty sure it's in the 80% Section. The gun will feed rounds from the PMAGs no problem. #5. Magpul Pmag Bolt Hold Open Problem - YouTube 0:00 / 7:05 Magpul Pmag Bolt Hold Open Problem It's A Gun Thing 24 subscribers Subscribe 143 16K views 3 years ago Does your bolt on a. What corresponding dimensions do you have? How can I make my rifle more reliable with PMags? Repeat for the P-mags and note any difference. Fig. The problem is pretty simple, the magazine's follower is failing to raise the bolt catch. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. (not my lower, but my exact problem!) I recently bought 3 for my acr and when comparing it to the other mags i have for it, it seems the internal part does not come up high enough to lift the bolt catch. After depletion of your 10 round magazine, you must hit the bolt catch release to bring the bolt 'home'. Not trying to be a dick, but can you summarize in one sentence what the rifle is NOT doing? The bolt can still be removed by grinding but will no longer be usable. I deepened the hole to 0.480. I will lock back, but requires a strong pull, instead of the gentle slide fully to the rear with aluminum or steel. This will allow for easy removal of the magazine . Just did this, no difference. While the weight difference may not seem like much to a civilian shooter who packs up his shiny, clean competition rifle into his Pelican case and totes it to and from the range in the family truckster, you hear about things like guys cutting toothbrushes in half to save weight in the military. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. Try manually locking it back a dozen or so times then checking for any wear streaks on the top of the magazine feed lips. These two pics right here, and the height difference. The metal Mag that came with my Stag worked fine however. I dont know what the limit is before you earn the edit privileges. UPDATE: after tinkering with it, Ive noticed it only happens on 30 round mags. By I realized you can fix this by filing or dremeling off some material on the rear of the mag body, or by using whatever generation of magazine they implemented to fix this, or you could just arrive at my next point and save four or five dollars more by purchasing a GI mag. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. It's a precaution against folks who like to cause trouble immediately after joining up. Using PMAGs can actually do irreparable damage to an FN SCAR rifle. The bolt passes over the cartridge instead of stripping it from the magazine. I read your post twice, I still don't see the malfunction. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. That should fix it. I'm looking forward to hearing some comments on this. Not up on the 80% stuff myself but we have a thread with lots of different brand bolt catches and the dimensions that may help on that end, please add to it if you have something not listed there. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. Correction to original post: If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 6 (not figure 5). Posted July 20, 2016 in Shooting Accessories, TFBTV by Alex C. with 210 CommentsTags: I'm the guy at the store with 27 coupons, Magpul, pmag, PMAGs, Tightwad. After installation of the ARMagLock the button is. Sorry, I see the bolt is hitting the follower i could not see that at first.. Not sure if I understand the problem correctly, but I thought the bolt catch is SUPPOSED to ride up on the follower? What measurements do you have on your lower? I can manually push the catch tab in to raise the catch higher. I read through the threads dealing with this issue. As weird as this will sound, you need to measure the length of your recoil buffer, and the internal depth of your buffer tube and post it here in addition to the excellent info already provided. So, I marked it and I'm gonna keep running it through to see if it happens anymore. Hey, everyone. 16s and pmag Gen 3 problems!! | FN Herstal Firearms It's not the bolt catch, itself, obviously. PMag Not Locking Bolt Catch : ar15 The mags cause the bolt catch to rise ever so slightly and drag on the bolt lugs, which results in significant damage over time. and might have several still in the packaging. The BC looks the same so this is a non issue. Open the receivers to the maximum limit of the pin capabilities. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! There were no ammunition-related issues during the review. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Problems with failure to feed AND failure to catch bolt Thanks for the reply. If someone can answer that, I'd appreciate it. Pmag VS Hexmag My Pmag20 wont last round bolt hold open and fails to feed 10% of the PMAG problems - Midwest PX - New Jersey Gun Forums Mag still wobbles the same and the error still remains. Seamac, did you have to modify the black polymer on the mag? Also, PMAGs had trouble fitting in firearms like the British SA-80/L-85, and will not fit in the FN FS-2000 without the user modifying the weapon by removing a component that serves to seal the weapon from dirt and debris. The tension on the bolt catch by the BCG helps keep the bolt catch firmly engaged over the rear of the follower of the Pmag. Founded by Frank Galli in 2000, Snipers Hide has been offering informational videos, podcasts, and other support to its users in one location. They are not as likely to happen with premium ammo yet the chance is still there. https://www.luth-ar.com/product/buffer-tube-spring-assembly-kit-308/, Bolt catch is from a TacFire .308 AR Lower Parts Kit (not for an AR-15). No need to answer that last question. I'd delete it if I could. It's a whole lot of details. The follower I wouldn't think should have witness marks on it though. As soon as my wife lifts our household arms embargo, I will have one. Note here that this PMAG will not insert into this civilian version of the HK-416, due to the odd body geometry. Additionally, unsafe and unintended methods of operation of the FIREARM may also cause non-compliance. AR platform is new to me, and I hope I don't upset anyone here because I am a noob when it comes to ARs. Operation of any AR MAGLOCK products outside the standard method of operation or its original intended use may cause non-compliance to laws / regulations, and injury or death. . The edit feature will become available to you with just a few more posts on the forum. This clearance is partially determined by the use of aLuth-AR .308 rifle buffer tube, spring, and weight [https://www.luth-ar.com/product/buffer-tube-spring-assembly-kit-308/]. I thought about a low mag catch (the machining of it) very first, based on your info, but I wanted to know about that mag catch's internal parts first. If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 6 (not figure 5). My external measurement as shown in figure 11 is the top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch hole which is 0.692. New firearms are designed around common Colt-pattern mags, and Magpul has to keep accommodating new designs with generational changes, or new offerings altogether, like they did with the EMAG. The plunger and compressed spring are 0.490. Guide to modifying .308 Gen3 P-Mags to work in DPMS G2 All it takes is one out of spec cartridge that the extractor fails to grab leaving the cartridge behind in the chamber, going back then forward and pushing a fresh round against the cartridge left behind and you have the dreaded double feed where everything locks up. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. Suggestions? Not a back-breaking amount, mind you, but not insignificant. Switch the Safety selector to 'Safe'. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. 10: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine release = 0.696, Fig. The mag on the left is the metal 10 round mag, the two to the right are Pmags. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. Using PMAGs can actually do irreparable damage to an FN SCAR rifle. Maybe it's raising it too much, but a locked bolt is a locked bolt. the tip of the bolt catch that is supposed to be actuated by the back end of the magazine follower is missing the follower and end up not catching the bolt once the mag is empty i have a gen 3 pmag without the window and its kind of frustrating. Once bolt was locked to the rear or closed, it would engage the catch and seat properly on the "bad" mag. Excellent work with the pics and details. 8: Bolt Carrier to upper receiver = 0.283. I picked up a SCAR 16s last week and put 50 rounds through it with no problems at all (using the FN mag). Try tightening the mag catch an extra turn. The bolt catch problem can be solved by drilling the plunger hole deeper but I'd first like to solve the feed problem. Seen here is a few examples of when a PMAG has to be manually removed: a problem that isnt present most of the time with plain old aluminum magazines. The max difference is 0.030".The real problem is where the mag catch hole is in the lower. I included a pic of the mag fully inserted, then a mag with the follower pushed down to the point of where the bolt catch stays flat. This is not the case with PMAGs in many platforms. I could not find it for a few days so I checked it. But if you're having this problem just take the flat of a knife blade and, holding the blade perpendicular to the magazine body, scrape a little bit of the plastic away until your bolt latch has free travel. I've heard of Issues with Pmags and ARs due to Pmags having more material on the rear of the mag, creating more distance between the follower and the Bolt Catch tooth which isn't as far with USGI mags, and wondering if it is that, plus tolerance stacking being my Catch has so much wiggle room on the Standard M&P. . Your enemies, with nodding of their plumes, fan you into despair! I'd like to get measurements with lowers that did not start as an 80% because there have been reports of80% lowers having the same problem as mine. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Let every feeble rumor shake your hearts! Insert the steel DPMS mag and lock the bolt back and look through the ejection port and note how much of the bolt face the bolt catch covers. I ordered 10 mags from brownells after I saw they didn't ride the bolt up. Talyn said: Pmag VS Hexmag. What the problem is: The lip on the un-fixed P-mag pushes the mag release/Bolt catch bar up just enough to catch the bolt group, but not enough to stop it. All Rights Reserved. If you have something major to change a quick PM to a mod will get it fixed for ya. Close the receivers back together and re-engage the rear takedown pin. /r/ar15 is here for your favorite black gun links, build pics, questions and other tactical or practical information. Mine seem to be fine after trimming of course. I don't and I didn't . honest. Fig. TSiWRX. We STRONGLY encourage all users to ONLY run premium ammunition through their firearm at all times. Again, though, I would like to recognize that PMAGs are a quality product and Magpul is very receptive to user feedback. Does your caliper also have a depth gauge that can get the internal depth to the mag catch as in figure 10? I don't know if this is an indication of another problem being that the bolt catch is too far left. The upper, lower, and jig are from Daytona Tactical d.b.a. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. The Fix: 1.) I get asked a lot why, in almost all of my reviews or videos, I use good old-fashioned U.S. GI steel magazines in lieu of Magpul PMAGs, a popular alternative that most shooters these days are familiar with. Is it the length of the plunger? So far so good. I thought it was a nonissue with the gen 3. Also the follower rides the bolt catch up A LOT. Again, kids running with scissors did this to us. A forum community dedicated to FN Herstal firearm owners and enthusiasts. Have the power still to banish your defenders; till at length your ignorance, which finds not till it feels, making but reservation of yourselves, still your own foes, deliver you, as most abated captives to some nation that won you without blows!". The plunger and compressed spring are 0.490. 3: Magazine feed lips height = 0.446, Fig. UPDATE: After seeing these pictures, I checked my factory mag. We have also seen similar malfunctions in a sandy environment using military spec ammo with a dirty, gummed up weapon. /r/ar15 is here for your favorite black gun links, build pics, questions and other tactical or practical information. 7: Bolt catch fully extended, plunger removed = 0.443, Fig. Iiiiffffff I owned one of those evil black rifles , I might buy the Hexmag brand when they went on sale for $6.95 ea. Pasted as rich text. The issue is with bolt lock back. Getting the Magpul PMAG to work with regular bolt catch I have a DPMS pattern LR-308 under construction that has a failure to feed and fails to catch the bolt on an empty magazine. When someone mentions must-have magazines for the AR platform, many shooters immediately think of Pmag Vs Hexmag. Depth of the hole? Always use the firearm and AR MAGLOCK products as designed, engineered and intended for use. I find it interesting that in the "Bolt Catch Issues" section of the article, they mention that if the gun's bolt-catch fails to operate properly, instead of simply checking other mags, their first-line troubleshooting is to check the critical dimensions . The main concern is the failure to feed. Really appreciate your thorough pictures provided, that's an excellent way to provide data on your issues. If you experience this issue, make sure your lower is within spec, and your bolt catch is installed correctly and not worn down. JavaScript is disabled. This solution will meet some states permanence requirements. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. It did. Continue until the upper lip is flush with the upper receiver when closed. Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. JavaScript is disabled. I was curious about how other magazines behaved in the lower so I measured them to simply verify reasonable consistency. How To Fix AR-15 Bolt Catch Lock Failure for PMAG's Indeed, if could be too low, and we have a HELL of a thread here on that very issue. Fig. It was initially 0.323 deep. .661 from top of receiver to top of mag catch inside magwell. *, MISC Training Course Announcements & AAR's, Former Vickers Shooting Method Regional Instructors, Pacific Northwest Training and Networking, All Other Longgun Parts, Accessories, & Magazines (EE), Handgun Parts, Accessories & Magazines (EE), If this is your first visit, be sure to PMAGs are pretty notorious for not wanting to work in various platforms, including guns like the HK-416 and M27-IAR. A: Some states require the compliance solution be made permanent. Measure the depth of the hole, first. Replace the empty magazine with a new 10 round magazine and let it click into place. For me I had to shave off small pieces of the mag to make the bolt catch itself latch. To my knowledge, no PMAGs will work in the FS-2000 to this day without modification. Thanks for this HC, I'm going to inspect my Gen 3's to see if mine have the same witness marks. The bolt catch problem can be solved by drilling the plunger hole deeper but Id first like to solve the feed problem. Upload or insert images from URL. Paste as plain text instead, Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. I think I may just shoot it a few mags and see what happens.. The bolt partially strips a round but doesnt chamber it and just drags over the top of it. What's stopping your bolt catch travel, when you have that plunger and spring in there? For me it's almost all gen 2 P mags. My Colt LE6920 bolt is not locking back when the last round is fired nor when I insert an empty magpul pmag magazine. It was initially 0.323 deep. Think it could be magazine springs? You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. Either the hole gets deeper, or a couple coils come off the spring, or the tail on the plunger gets shortened. PMAG "bolt catch interference" Issue with LMT MWS When I release the bolt, the back end of the follower is sticking up, and the bolt will strip the follower right out of the top of the magazine if I let it go. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. P-Mag Follower and Bolt Catch Engagement *Issue Resolved!* I do need to know the correct distance of the top of the mag catch to the top of the lower as in figure 10 by using a depth gauge. Can anyone offer insight to the cause of or solution to these problems? Crap! Elite Aluminum Products although I dont know who made them. None of the 3 15/30 i have worked. Of course, this is just my opinion, based on my personal experiences, and your mileage may vary. 4: Clearance to bolt catch is adequate when bolt is fully retracted, Fig. I dont readily know of a solution to the feed problem but I dont want to alter magazines to compensate for a receiver flaw. The plunger hole on this 80% lower was supposed to have already been finished. That one issue, right there, because in the previous pics, that bolt catch isn't sticking up enough to reliably get that bolt face every time. Personally I wouldn't shoot it until you've got this issue corrected. With the mag catch removed, a mag can be inserted so far into the mag well that the follower moves upward beyond the point where it can lift the bolt catch. It is tight getting the depth gauge to the lower so the caliper may need to be slightly rotated but not in a direction that will affect the height measurement. Very carefully and pay attention to how the bolt catch actually works, if you did you should figured it out almost immediately. You can post now and register later. Display as a link instead, Problem: 30 round Pmag follower doesn't catch on the front lip of the bolt catch. His problem is that the front tab of the bolt catch is not engaging on the follower of the PMAG, so the bolt won't hold open on the last round. Morality is nothing more than expressions of people's personal taste/ Right? That said, there is a reason that there are generations of these magazines. NEVER attempt to cycle the bolt carrier group (manually or otherwise) or fire a round with the action open (receivers separated), as this may cause serious injury or death AND potentially make your rifle non-compliant with laws and regulations! The P-mags always functioned. If so, it might be worth trying another batch of pmags in case it's just a mold variation. So, for people who only have AR-15s and only shoot AR-15s, its easy to get tunnel vision and just assume that PMAGs are the greatest, and the end-all, be-all answer for all shooters, while overlooking the needs of other people. Next up is damage to the SCAR. I too have seen issues with PMag followers. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. check out the. This is one of my pistols. This will severly damage your bolt group over time. This can cause partial engagement of the bolt catch and result in unintentional contact between the bolt carrier group and the bolt catch during normal weapon operation. Come join the discussion about optics, modifications, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! It isnt that they are bad (in fact they feed and run very well in certain firearms) but in my years of shooting I have simply found that other products may better suit a myriad of shooters. The plunger hole on this 80% lower was supposed to have already been finished. The problem is interference between the bottom edge of the rear wall of the mag well and a ridge running horizontally across the PMag spine. 10: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch = 0.696, Fig. His mags didn't ride the bolt catch up so we tried them out. Before that would be a solution - you need tocheck how much further into the upper receiver that your magazine will go. I can manually push the bolt catch tab in to raise the catch higher. I wish I could edit the original post to correct this. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Another P-Mag bolt catch issue. I deepened the hole to 0.480. Alex is a Senior Writer for The Firearm Blog and Director of TFBTV. Special thanks to Ventura Munitions for helping us out with the cost of ammo, and a special thank you to you all for watching. magpul pmag milspec bolt catch problem : r/ar15 Check all your mags, especially PMAGS, but check all mags!! You'll need to clay the upper, just like you'd do if you were checking an engine for piston-to-valve clearance. :??? I have about 15 Amend 2 mags, but that's out of 20 because 5 of them wouldn't drop out of the mag well by themselves. PMAG Problems Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated the bolt catch tooth begins at the center of the follower then teeters towardthe edge until it drops off. Note: Firearm will not retain magazines until a replacement magazine catch solution is re-installed. 1.4k edit: i just got them. Ar10 bolt jamming up on PMag/mag release | Northwest Firearms For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Thanks shooterrex. i have my pmags and i am just noticing a problemtried it out on 3 seperate lowers all of them have the same problem: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/derek45/AR/IMGP5612.jpg, the tip of the bolt catch that is supposed to be actuated by the back end of the magazine follower is missing the follower and end up not catching the bolt once the mag is empty. Pmag Problem | Northeastshooters.com Forums If your upper and lower receivers are MIL-SPEC the ARMagLock will work. That should tell you what's going on. If so, it would cause both symptoms. NEVER use this product outside the standard method of operation as it will cause the rifle to no longer be in compliance and you risk arrest. I liken this to a person who lives in an urban area with an office job, assuming that nobody needs anything more than a Toyota Camry, while overlooking the fact that some people need things such as towing capacity, off-road capability, or more seats for a larger family.
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